tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-595900014735598043.post7887543616520415240..comments2024-03-18T16:28:06.364+07:00Comments on Buddha Space: The SanghaGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11820006311674418847noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-595900014735598043.post-47166877233810667742009-04-30T17:36:00.000+07:002009-04-30T17:36:00.000+07:00I like your description of the word 'Sangha', Jame...I like your description of the word 'Sangha', James. It pretty much sums up the way the comments have developed from the original article. <br /><br />"ALL is Sangha" reminds me of a talk by Ajahn Chah, when he described the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha in the same way. You're in exalted company, James!<br /><br />Be well,<br />G.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820006311674418847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-595900014735598043.post-49292957787230230422009-04-29T06:10:00.000+07:002009-04-29T06:10:00.000+07:00I think it means the traditional Sangha of monks b...I think it means the traditional Sangha of monks but also another circle that extents further out to take in all Buddhists.<br /><br />And then another circle going further and further out to incorporate all beings. Perhaps it's a bit like circles within circles that all touch at a certain angle in the loop. <br /><br />And then perhaps once we transcend labels and shapes--ALL is sangha.They call him James Urehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05171585857015973860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-595900014735598043.post-45059665666209711602009-04-24T14:15:00.000+07:002009-04-24T14:15:00.000+07:00Barry, I too have a tendency to see things as blac...Barry, I too have a tendency to see things as black or white - it's a common aspect of the human mind, perhaps especially the western mind! I recall D.T. Suzuki's statement: "Zen is gray." <br /><br />Mike, I love your Ajahn Amaro representation of 'Sangha' as meaning being in harmony with the conditioned world. Great! <br /><br />Justin, how did I know your response would be the most conservative?! (Just kidding!) I share both your traditional way of seeing the word 'Sangha', and your non-judgmental approach to those who use it differently. Well written!<br /><br />It is enough, Peter, really. In fact, if I recall correctly, the word 'Sangha' literally means 'community', so to use it in the way that you cite seems most appropriate. <br /><br />Excellent responses from all of you guys: thanks!<br />GGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820006311674418847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-595900014735598043.post-40669083861950766392009-04-24T06:51:00.000+07:002009-04-24T06:51:00.000+07:00Gary, it frankly doesn't bother me that the term i...Gary, it frankly doesn't bother me that the term is used so loosely these days. I know its origin and I know its formal meaning, but I've been with a little sitting group for fifteen years and we call ourselves a "sangha"--with a little "s"!--even though we are not monks and nuns, nor intend to be. The distinguished Thanissaro Bhikkhu, abbott of the nearby Metta Forest monastery, has been coming once a month for years and has never expressed dismay at our abuse of the term. Purists may scoff, but I love what our use of the word describes: a small and loving community of well-intentioned people who come together to practice meditation. That's enough, no?Peter Clothierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11525159413387378704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-595900014735598043.post-5360183721138314952009-04-24T04:18:00.000+07:002009-04-24T04:18:00.000+07:00As an irascible conservative in all aspects of my ...As an irascible conservative in all aspects of my life I do not recognize "Sangha" as anything other then those monks(and the ancient nuns) who have been traditionally ordained, although I don't crtiticize others for using other definitions. <br /><br />I'm a traditionalist in most things so naturally I wouldn't dare consider a layman such as myself as being part of the Sangha although I aspire to be a member of the Ariyas through my practice. <br /><br />If others wish to consider themselves a part of the "Sangha" then so be it; I try not to get involved with the politics of Buddhist groups since I pretty much keep to myself.JDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062221333467776105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-595900014735598043.post-27814069080683070352009-04-24T03:16:00.000+07:002009-04-24T03:16:00.000+07:00Hi Gary,
On the conventional level I guess I hold...Hi Gary,<br /><br />On the conventional level I guess I hold sort of a bastardized western definition of Sangha as a group of like minded individuals practicing Dhamma together. I don't come across many Buddhists here in the "Bible Belt" region of the states, so most of my communications with other Buddhists is done through the internet. I've never met most of these people in person but I also consider them to be Sangha. <br /><br />That being said, I do definitely appreciate the fact that I have a Theravada forest monastery just a few hours drive away. The formal Sangha system created by the Buddha creates an environment where the practice can reach much deeper levels more quickly than I could ever hope to achieve living the lay life. I don’t care what anyone says, it’s hard to sit in meditation for a few hours a day when you have a spouse and young children! It’s a huge benefit to have this formal Sangha I can visit every once in a while to renew the momentum of my practice and find guidance from forest monks who truly know the Dhamma. <br /><br />I'm sure the internal qualities of refuge in Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha are elaborated by many teachers, but I've always found the way that Ajahn Chah's linage teaches this reflection to be very useful. Ajahn Amaro explains that Sangha can be experienced as harmony and peace with the conditioned world. When the Buddha sees the Dhamma the result is Sangha. When the pure awakened knowing recognizes nature as it is there is peace and communion with the world. At least that’s how I remember he taught it. This Sangha is the real refuge.<br /><br />Great post as always. Thanks Gary.<br /><br />Be well,<br />-Mike D.Mike D.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-595900014735598043.post-78605481007256895332009-04-23T21:47:00.000+07:002009-04-23T21:47:00.000+07:00Thanks for your generous response, Gary.
I recall...Thanks for your generous response, Gary.<br /><br />I recall the Buddha's later teachings on the middle way - to avoid "things exist" and also to avoid "things don't exist." The path between these is the middle path.<br /><br />Buddha was talking (as I understand it) about the temptations of conceptualization. <br /><br />And those temptations apply to conceptualizatons about sangha as much as to those about "me" and "you." So I tend to work lightly with any conceptualizations, especially in "teaching" contexts.<br /><br />And I need to do this, because I have a strong tendency toward black/white thinking - exactly the kind of disease that the Buddha cautioned against.<br /><br />Thanks again!<br /><br />BarryBarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09412033978642026623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-595900014735598043.post-53675260160657029252009-04-23T09:35:00.000+07:002009-04-23T09:35:00.000+07:00Nice response, Barry.
"I take refuge in the ...Nice response, Barry.<br /><br />"I take refuge in the Barista!" ;-)<br /><br />Seriously, your point that everyone & everything are constantly pointing out our true nature is an important one, Barry. Recognizing this can indeed lead to enlightening experiences that release us from our conceptual prisons.<br /><br />On a conventional level, that is when wishing to communicate with others, words need to be accurate descriptions of actual things or processes, otherwise sensible communication becomes impossible. <br /><br />On the level of awakening, it's fine to describe everything as 'Sangha,' just as it's fine to say black is white and up is down - in the awakened state we see beyond logical meaning. But, if wishing to talk of the Triple Gem in unenlightened circles, do we not need words that have limited, precise meanings that we all understand & share? Otherwise, it is like the blind leading the blind, and none of us are in the (Enlightened) Sangha, merely playing with words.<br /><br />Having written that, it must be acknowledged that attaching to the literal meaning of words as absolute truths is equally misguided, if we wish to awaken to the way-things-are (the Dharma). Finding the Middle Way, where words have definite meanings on the conventional level, but can be transformed on the level of awakening seems to be the wiser course of action. What do you think, Barry?<br /><br />Be well in the Sangha,<br />G.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820006311674418847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-595900014735598043.post-81946425540394001962009-04-23T02:46:00.000+07:002009-04-23T02:46:00.000+07:00Gary, In my experience, "sangha" refers to everyon...Gary, In my experience, "sangha" refers to everyone and everything I encounter. <br /><br />These black letters scrolling on a white screen, if I open my heart/mind to them, become part of my community. If I close my heart/mind to these scrolling black letters, then I close my heart/mind to all community.<br /><br />This may not be traditional (in Thailand, at least) but I don't care about tradition or modernity. The only thing that's important for me is to wake up from delusion and suffering that I produce, and to help others do that same. <br /><br />In my life, sangha plays an critical role in that awakening, and it's not limited to monks, nuns, and those already enlightened. The barista can help me awaken, just as fully as the Zen master.<br /><br />As you say, "sangha" is another word and concept. Why then would we attach to it?Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09412033978642026623noreply@blogger.com